Aqua Taskforce

jasper wrote on May 4, 2009, 5:49am

You have no idea how much is wrong about what you suggest. You're asking MacOS to be Windows? Then use Windows. This feature is old and usefull. I find it more annoying that on Windows I have to right-click and select 'Rename' from a long list just to get there. Using cmnd+O will open your file as well, and the spacebar will give you a preview.

'Windows does it fine, so model that!' ?
Windows does it differently, but therefore not immediatly better. If you prefer Windows, use it, but don't ask Apple to model MacOS after Windows...

polycat33 wrote on May 4, 2009, 6:33am

I use a mac quite often, as well as windows, and it's really annoying to press enter on a file or folder in windows with the desire to rename it and have it open.

Big thumbs down for "make Mac do it how windows does it" suggestions.

mojo2012 wrote on May 4, 2009, 7:51am

@jasper: you can rename files by pressing F2 or by double clicking slowly on the file name (not the icon). The latter also works in Mac OS X.

I admit, that this is just a matter of habit. When I use windows I constantly try to press space bar to open quicklook ... (and yes, I want windows to have quicklook!)

From a user experience standpoint, I don't understand this decision. The enter key, imho, means to open or confirm something. Only in textwriting it means to make a line break. Why the enter/return key was chosen to enter the "file rename mode", is unclear to me. But by now, I got used to this behaviour.

I don't think that cloning features of other OSs is bad, if they do things better. No cloning (and further improving), only because another OS does something better is BAD. But in this case, "better" is subjective.

abitgone wrote on May 4, 2009, 10:25am

Automatic -1 for any suggestion that includes phrases akin to "because that's how Windows does it".

Just because Windows does it doesn't mean it's the right way.

toddsieling wrote on May 4, 2009, 8:20pm

I had this feeling as well when I switched to Mac. I realized after a while that *not* having the enter/return key open a file made more sense, as that button gets pressed too casually. I find when I need to use Command+Down Arrow to open something, I know I want to open it and with this combo, so does the OS.

jasper wrote on May 5, 2009, 6:44pm

The problem is that people don't know their history. It's Microsoft that made a mess of the existing keyboards, making the command move to control and adding 'enter' on the key. Mac keyboards don't feature that word, they feature a go-a-line-below sign, and they have ever since it's inception.

Here a piece of history for those who want to know.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/08/11/how-ap...indows-pcs-gained-one/

geometrikal wrote on May 7, 2009, 2:28am

"return" on the mac is carraige return so technically the cursor should move to the start of the line. however the key is used more like enter (line feed carriage return) now, as we have gone well past the days of type writers. The 'return' performs rename is a relic of the old days, and impossible to change because so many people are used to it i guess. But the dominate function of the return or enter key is to run the default option on an object. This is not the case for a file. For the file it is rename, a function that is used a lot less than open.

penname wrote on May 8, 2009, 9:58pm

I open folders or files when navigating through the finder much more frequently than I rename files. The more common action (opening not renaming) should be the one assigned to the enter key.

PLUS: What happens when you press enter after highlighting results returned in Spotlight? It opens the file or folder. Having that same behavior in the finder would make the UI more consistent.

Also, please make the voting about the user experience rather than a Mac vs. Windows debate. Both OSes take good ideas from the other and use it in their interface (though admittedly the good ideas flow more often from the Mac to the Windows side than the reverse).

jasper wrote on June 6, 2009, 7:09pm

It is a matter of habbit. You switched from Windows, and you're wondering why that key doesn't work the way it used to. Sadly, no Apple keyboard has the word 'enter' on it, just a line-break symbol. It's a line break. Pressing the linebreak allows you to edit the linename of the selected file. However, this might not seem so obvious and I can understand why you're asking this.

But penname: NINJA90 brought up the Windows thing... If anybody says 'because Windows does it', we tell them that it's not even an argument. It's just ranting, because you don't need to copy something because people are used to it with your competitor. MacOS dates back a long time, longer than Windows, and isn't going to change just because Windows does it. We could also, as macusers, suggest the other way around and let Windows adopt cmnd+O to open a folder. Luckily enough, we think it's pointless to start pointing out the flaws in Windows.

Never mention Windows here, because it's sadly enough mostly a bad suggestion when you want to CHANGE something to MacOS. When you want to add something that Windows has, it's different.

aequalsb wrote on June 9, 2009, 4:17pm

I think a very important aspect to this discussion is being missed...

on Mac: if you select a series of files (consecutively or not) then double-click on ONE of those files... it opens ALL of the selected files.

on Windows: if you select a series of files (consecutively or not) then double-click on ONE of those files... it opens ONLY the file you DOUBLE-CLICKED ON. to compensate for this, Windows makes the Enter key open a multi-file selection.

Mac, on the other hand, has the ADVANTAGE of being able to assign the Enter key a different function: to open the inline file-rename dialogue -- which i use profusely and can "quickly and easily rename a series of files using keyboard interaction ONLY". to change that would be... horrid.

RE: "Fix it. Windows does it just fine, so model that!" It certainly offers NO support to hold up one OS against the other and say that one does it right.

I am a graphic designer/web designer/web programmer and i probably have more reasons to absolutely (and with great passion) hate Windows than you have in combined comparison points. i use both OSs extensively, for many different reasons, on a daily basis, side-by-side -- you will likely not find as devout a Mac user as myself.

however, there are a handful of things about Windows i prefer. example: in Windows, you have complete access to file and folder manipulation right inside any save dialogue box... a tremendous positive there!

so i would not dismiss any suggestion offhand nor would i vote on it negatively just because it was referring to "how Windows does it right". BUT... this suggestion is so fundamentally contrary to a Mac advanage that i MUST vote negatively against it...

tgriesser10 wrote on August 17, 2009, 9:18pm

www.returnopen.com